.
.
Join Brave New Films for a virtual screening and discussion of the short documentary, “Racially Charged: America’s Misdemeanor Problem.”
SPEAKERS INCLUDE:
Mary Moriarty – Former Chief Hennepin County Public Defender,
Nadine Graves – Nadine Graves is a former public defender who has represented hundreds of people charged with criminal offenses ranging from misdemeanors to felonies. She currently represents parents subjected to child-protection cases. Outside of the courtroom, Ms. Graves is a podcast host of The Waiting Room with Nadine Graves and the board chair of a non-profit, We Are Criminals, an organization dedicated to challenging society’s perceptions of what it means to be “criminal.”
Chris Lollie – Chris Lollie was waiting to pick his children up from daycare in St. Paul Minnesota when he was arrested for questioning why he was being detained. The egregious charges brought against him became the subject of a lawsuit that was decided in his favor. He continues to use his platform as an advocate for change and youth. Chris is a loving father of 4 children, an avid lyricist, youth advocate and an activist for civil liberties and rights for all Americans especially descendants of formerly enslaved people.
Robert Greenwald – Director, Racially Charged and President of Brave New Films, a nonprofit film company that he founded after a career in commercial television and film to motivate and educate viewers on the most pressing issues of the day. Brave New Films distributes its work for free through social media and in concert with nonprofit partners and movements.
CO-SPONSORS:
Brave New Films
ACLU Minnesota
We Are All Criminals
Minnesota Freedom Fund
Sign up to host a virtual screening of “Racially Charged” here:
https://bit.ly/3rsL5jd
Transcript provided by YouTube:
00:23
one
00:26
hi i’m jill ettinger vice president of
00:28
partnerships and distribution
00:30
at brave new films unfortunately robert
00:32
greenwald the director of this film
00:34
racially charged was unable to make it
00:36
here at the very last minute today so
00:38
i’m stepping in
00:39
to host this event brave new films
00:43
is a non-profit social justice media
00:45
company
00:46
our work is to create films and tell the
00:49
stories that are not being told
00:51
we try to connect the dots to help
00:53
people understand the critical
00:55
issues facing us today this meeting is
00:58
being recorded
01:00
misdemeanors are one of those issues
01:02
they are a major part of our
01:04
incarceration system every year 13
01:07
million people
01:08
primarily poor people and people of
01:10
color are oppressed by
01:12
this system the short documentary that
01:14
you’re about to see
01:16
tells the story of misdemeanors and
01:18
connects the dots
01:19
between the inequities that started
01:21
right after the civil war
01:23
that intentionally still exists today
01:25
you’ll see
01:26
how profiteering and punishment are a
01:28
toxic combination
01:30
built on top of racism i want to thank
01:34
our co-sponsors of today’s event
01:36
the aclu of minnesota we are all
01:39
criminals
01:40
and the minnesota freedom fund all of
01:42
these organizations
01:44
are working hard to fight for change
01:46
both to our criminal legal system
01:48
and to our perception of what it means
01:50
to be criminal so please check out their
01:52
websites
01:53
and find out how you can get involved
01:56
and finally i want to thank the many
01:57
people watching on youtube and facebook
01:59
today
02:00
and those around the country who are
02:02
signing up to hold free screenings
02:04
of this film virtually or in person to
02:06
make sure that the learnings from this
02:08
film travel far and wide
02:10
we have over 300 sign-ups for screening
02:12
so far with educators faith groups
02:15
advocacy organizations and that number
02:17
is growing
02:18
the challenge after you see the film is
02:21
how to
02:22
change the system it’s all too easy to
02:24
keep doing the same thing in our
02:26
criminal legal system
02:27
even when we know that it’s racist when
02:29
the data shows us that it fails to keep
02:31
us safe
02:32
and when we’re spending obscene amounts
02:34
of money so please
02:36
stick around after the film to hear from
02:38
our incredible panelists
02:40
who are working to change this
02:51
the biggest misconception about
02:54
misdemeanors
02:55
is that they are minor to start hearing
02:57
more and more stories of voter
02:59
suppression
02:59
it broke my heart they’re the ones that
03:02
are using the system
03:09
[Music]
03:16
my grandma was fighting for integration
03:19
back in her day
03:20
and i’m fighting for the same thing now
03:23
[Music]
03:24
the problem is the system is working the
03:27
way it’s supposed to
03:34
[Music]
03:56
we’re recording all right
04:01
sometimes i feel like my life ended that
04:04
day
04:06
my car died on the side of the road a
04:07
cop walked over to my car and asked me
04:09
if i needed help
04:10
and i said no john clark was convicted
04:12
on a misdemeanor gambling charge
04:14
and was forced to work on a chain gang i
04:16
just remember being pushed
04:18
like being cornered into a wall i was
04:22
just starting out life and i didn’t
04:23
think i had anything to hide
04:25
mary gay was sentenced to 30 days plus
04:27
court costs
04:28
for stealing a hat i was arrested that
04:30
evening it was
04:31
a misdemeanor that was the beginning of
04:34
the nightmare that i had to go through
04:36
henry nelson was arrested for using
04:38
abusive language in the presence of a
04:39
female
04:40
and was sent off to the coal mines he
04:42
said you’re going to jail
04:44
and i’m like what for
04:54
misdemeanors have historically been the
04:56
chump change
04:57
crimes that we didn’t pay attention to
05:01
[Music]
05:02
i just got beat up by the police last
05:04
night but i could have lost my life
05:07
13 million that’s about 80 percent
05:10
of all american criminal documents 80
05:13
percent of what our criminal courts do
05:15
is misdemeanors the story of
05:19
misdemeanors
05:20
is the story of law enforcement
05:22
continuing to prioritize
05:24
african americans mexican immigrants
05:27
america’s so-called criminal class
05:29
you act like i really just committed a
05:30
serious crime i did do something illegal
05:32
you crossed the crosswalk you might see
05:34
two or three police standing and waiting
05:36
for the cops
05:40
[Applause]
05:43
the misdemeanor system has not gotten
05:45
its fair share of blame
05:47
misdemeanors are the invidious first
05:50
step
05:51
in the racialization of crime in this
05:53
country
05:54
too often arrests for minor crimes
05:57
devolve
05:58
into police violence and death for black
06:01
and brown people
06:07
[Music]
06:13
[Applause]
06:15
[Music]
06:27
they got me for jaywalking not wearing a
06:30
seat belt
06:30
my tail light was out i was arrested for
06:35
[Music]
06:47
how far back that goes is a really dark
06:50
[Music]
07:00
story
07:02
reconstruction was an era when four
07:04
million african-americans
07:06
made it out of bondage and were able to
07:08
achieve at really high levels
07:11
whether it was in business and in
07:14
education
07:15
different ways of prosperity that really
07:17
threatened white supremacy
07:20
[Music]
07:22
they elected many black men to positions
07:26
of power
07:30
of course that was a sea change from how
07:33
power had been
07:34
exercised during slavery and
07:37
a lot of white folks just didn’t like it
07:42
they were nostalgic for the old days
07:45
of overt white supremacy and so they
07:49
subverted reconstruction
07:52
if you look at misdemeanors and you
07:54
track them from
07:55
the reconstruction era to modern day you
07:57
see the fingerprints everywhere
07:59
of white supremacy and control of black
08:01
bodies
08:03
the bland owners they had nearly lost
08:06
everything
08:06
and the only way to get that back is to
08:09
somehow corral
08:10
the black labor force back into the same
08:12
plantations that they had once worked
08:17
the most effective way of forcing
08:19
african americans back into this
08:21
condition that would be so similar to
08:22
slavery
08:23
was to begin to criminalize black life
08:25
itself
08:28
misdemeanor offenses for incredibly
08:30
trivial or made-up things
08:32
what should have been tiny penalties for
08:34
non-existent offenses
08:36
turn into years of people’s lives where
08:39
were you taking
08:41
i was taken out to the camps where did
08:43
you sleep
08:45
slept on some hay chain was on me i’m
08:48
being put into handcuffs
08:50
i’m being dragged into this cold space i
08:53
don’t have anything to cover myself and
08:55
i’m asked to sit inside of this tiny
08:57
little room and i
08:58
have no idea why i’m there was there any
09:00
jury that tried you
09:02
no sir did the recorder ask you whether
09:05
you wanted a lawyer
09:06
no sir and i thought that i would have
09:08
time to talk to a court-appointed
09:10
attorney so we could talk about what
09:11
happened
09:12
i could ask them to get other you know
09:14
pieces of evidence that would prove that
09:16
hey
09:16
i’m poor it wasn’t like i was trying to
09:18
run off with this money
09:20
did they furnish any copy of the charge
09:21
against you no sir they did not
09:25
did they give you any opportunity to
09:26
plead to any accusation
09:28
it never gave me anything at all when
09:31
they asked me how i played i played no
09:33
contest
09:34
i didn’t understand that no contest is
09:35
the same as guilty and
09:37
that i would walk away with a
09:39
misdemeanor that would affect my ability
09:41
to get hired
09:50
the justice system after emancipation
09:53
was weaponized against black people
09:55
it perpetuated slavery by
09:58
making the mechanisms of enslavement
10:01
pretty much the same
10:03
family separation back-breaking labor
10:05
people having no rights
10:07
you could be sold on the steps of the
10:09
courthouse that you were convicted in
10:12
and given to the highest bidder a whole
10:16
separate criminal code that apply
10:19
to african americans was established
10:23
many misdemeanor offenses are best
10:25
understood
10:26
as mechanisms of social control they’re
10:29
not designed to
10:30
catch dangerous or guilty people but
10:33
rather they are tools
10:35
we give them to police as additional
10:37
ways of exercising their authority
10:40
some of these laws were overtly
10:43
race-based
10:44
and with others then and now the
10:47
understanding was that the laws would
10:49
look race neutral but they would be
10:51
applied and enforced
10:53
almost exclusively against black people
10:56
for these governments
10:57
to sell prisoners into slavery you first
11:00
have to arrest
11:01
lots of people there’s a big problem
11:03
with that though
11:04
there’s just not enough crime for this
11:06
system to work
11:07
and for it to be profitable the state
11:09
governments of the south had to
11:11
invent new crimes
11:17
southern legislatures which are
11:18
essentially run by confederates
11:21
at that time are trying to reinscribe a
11:24
form of slavery through a system of laws
11:26
called black codes
11:31
a whole category of new statutes passed
11:34
in almost every southern state
11:35
that attached these enormous penalties
11:38
to what were
11:39
in reality very minor thefts
11:42
those were laws and many others like it
11:45
that were only ever
11:46
enforced against african americans and
11:48
so it became a way
11:50
to have a basis for arresting huge
11:53
numbers of black people
11:55
i don’t remember much about writing the
11:57
check
11:58
john owen was caught taking six years of
12:00
corn from a cornfield
12:02
and was arrested under the black codes
12:07
this is four dollars and we have one two
12:10
three four five six seven seven times
12:13
scores
12:14
twenty eight dollars so just this pile
12:17
right here
12:17
is how much i went to jail for owen was
12:20
put in jail for months
12:21
until he was finally tried for theft i
12:24
have a theft charge it’s
12:26
theft by check i had money in the bank
12:29
but i didn’t know how long it took for
12:30
checks to process like i know better now
12:34
i could have donated plasma gotten 25
12:38
under his sentence owen was leased in
12:41
the convict labor
12:42
and sent to the chain gang where he
12:43
served two years for the corn
12:46
and a third year for the court costs i
12:48
was in the hayes county jail
12:50
for a total of 45 days for 25
12:53
worth of food
12:56
michael brown who was the teenager who
12:59
was killed by police in ferguson
13:01
whose death led to the explosion of the
13:04
black lives matter movement
13:07
he was stopped for jaywalking he stepped
13:10
off the sidewalk and was walking in the
13:12
street and there was a local
13:14
criminal ordinance that made it a crime
13:16
to do so
13:18
african americans are being cited for
13:21
jaywalking
13:22
at three five ten times the rate of
13:25
white pedestrians the legislatures of
13:28
the white south make it a crime
13:30
to walk alongside a railroad in an era
13:32
which there are no paved roads the
13:34
easiest way for a poor person to get
13:36
from one place to another
13:37
is to walk alongside a railroad that law
13:39
didn’t say
13:40
this only applies to black people but
13:42
those were laws that
13:44
were only ever enforced against african
13:46
americans
13:48
all of us engage in what would be
13:51
considered to be
13:52
minor crimes and for some people it’s
13:55
crossing the street at the wrong time
13:57
but if you’re black or brown then it
13:59
becomes
14:00
categorized as something that’s criminal
14:03
so what does it do
14:05
all i’m trying to do is go home man i’m
14:07
tired i just got off of work
14:09
nandi cain says he was walking home from
14:12
work when it happened
14:13
since i felt like they were going to
14:14
draw a gun out and shoot me in my back
14:17
i’m tired of [ __ ] man
14:42
vagrancy laws were passed that
14:43
essentially meant any black person
14:46
who was found on the streets unemployed
14:48
and couldn’t show
14:49
evidence of work was a criminal a
14:52
vagrant
14:53
trespass laws originate from this idea
14:55
that african americans only belong in
14:57
certain spaces
14:58
and at certain times and so they give
15:00
police officers the
15:02
ability under the guise of law to
15:05
dictate
15:05
where an african-american person can be
15:08
what time they can be there
15:09
and how they can operate in certain
15:11
spaces my kids daycare was inside
15:14
of one of the buildings to the skyway so
15:17
i figured i’d take a walk find somewhere
15:18
to sit down
15:19
and um wait on them to get there i’m
15:21
going to new horizons to pick up my kids
15:23
i was sitting there for 10 minutes
15:25
when rodolfos was standing in the train
15:27
yard when he was grabbed by the
15:28
sheriff’s deputy
15:30
monroe stated that he had not committed
15:32
any crime why are you going to go to
15:34
jail i’m not doing anything
15:35
wrong can you hold on please no no come
15:38
on brother
15:40
at this moment i saw my children’s
15:43
daycare class and their teachers and
15:45
everything um walking past while this
15:47
was happening
15:48
he took the taser and drove it into my
15:50
leg and pretty much at that point it
15:52
lost all control
15:54
of the leg the deputy later claimed that
15:56
the crime committed by dolphus
15:58
was taking a 25-cent tent of fish from
16:00
the lunch pail of a southern railway
16:02
worker
16:02
unable to provide any evidence to
16:04
support this
16:06
the charge was changed to vagrancy and i
16:09
kept asking them what i was being
16:10
charged with
16:12
they’ll create false charges just to
16:14
make sure
16:15
that everything is perpetuated judge
16:18
longshore found dolphus guilty of
16:20
misdemeanor vagrancy
16:22
and sentenced him to five months and 20
16:24
days of hard labor
16:26
and the minds of tennessee coal iron and
16:28
railroad
16:30
going back to the vagrancy laws of the
16:32
late 19th century
16:33
the people who make those laws have in
16:35
mind
16:36
another group of people for whom there
16:38
is an inherent
16:40
threat to their livelihood like breaking
16:43
barbecue ordinances in public parks or
16:46
sleeping in dormitories that white
16:48
people don’t think you live there i have
16:50
every right to call the police
16:51
it allows law enforcement to regulate
16:54
whether or not
16:55
certain behavior for one group of people
16:58
is deemed
16:59
a criminal and another group of people
17:02
is just frivolous activity many people
17:04
remember
17:05
the starbucks debacle in philadelphia
17:08
there were two african-american men
17:10
at a starbucks the employee had them
17:12
arrested
17:13
for loitering where they’re clearly not
17:14
engaging in that behavior
17:21
is a police tool of choice it’s the
17:24
go-to offense that police often use
17:26
to impose their authority in the
17:28
misdemeanor system there is no conduct
17:30
to minor no act too small that the state
17:34
cannot render a crime
17:37
black people charged with a misdemeanor
17:38
are 75 percent more likely to be locked
17:41
up
17:42
than white people you have to realize
17:44
that these laws didn’t happen
17:46
by chance they were part of a a system
17:49
to continue to oppress black bodies our
17:52
misdemeanor system
17:53
includes all kinds of offenses and some
17:56
of them can be quite serious
17:58
domestic violence dui but most of the
18:02
time
18:03
we treat minor harmless conduct
18:06
as misdemeanors traffic offenses
18:09
jaywalking
18:10
order maintenance offenses spitting
18:13
driving on a suspended license for
18:15
failure to pay a fines and yet
18:17
these minor meaningless misdemeanors can
18:20
have
18:21
terrible consequences for individuals
18:28
[Music]
18:31
to understand the misdemeanor system
18:33
follow the money
18:35
[Music]
18:38
the accused are paying for the judges
18:39
the prosecutors and the city made more
18:42
than
18:42
three and a half million dollars off
18:44
phone commissary at the jail it’s a no
18:46
money maker they call it
18:47
the twenty dollar family member
18:49
transferred money
18:50
pocketing leftover money from the
18:52
inmates
18:54
a month
19:04
today’s system is estimated at 80
19:07
billion dollars
19:10
the misdemeanor side of it it is a way
19:13
of saddling people with fines and fees
19:15
that will put money in the pockets of
19:18
the administrators
19:19
of that system the first time i got a
19:22
ticket
19:22
my insurance had lapsed so i got the
19:25
speeding ticket
19:26
and i got a no insurance ticket at the
19:28
same time the next time i got pulled
19:29
over
19:30
i was arrested for driving with the
19:31
suspended license i paid the tickets
19:33
paid the court costs paid my fees and
19:35
fines but they said we’re driving with
19:36
the suspended license the
19:38
punishment for that is we’re gonna
19:40
suspend your license for two years
19:42
i would often have to choose between
19:43
paying my inspection or my registration
19:46
or paying my light bill or other bills
19:48
that i had
19:49
i had to drive my car to get to work
19:51
because
19:52
i had a construction job if i needed to
19:54
take material to the job
19:55
i couldn’t take plywood or two by fours
19:57
on a bus
20:04
i felt like there was no way i was going
20:07
to
20:07
be able to take care of the kids on my
20:10
own while you were out because i didn’t
20:11
know how long you were going to be in
20:13
jail
20:13
this officer saw me a young hispanic guy
20:16
driving a 63 impala
20:18
and said you know what that guy he’s up
20:20
to something i was trying to go to work
20:22
trying to pay bills and he’s treating me
20:24
like a hardened criminal
20:26
that misdemeanor charge ended up
20:28
becoming
20:29
something that i couldn’t get rid of
20:44
they are being treated as revenue
20:46
sources
20:47
charged daily fees for being in jail
20:51
supervision fees tether fees drug
20:53
testing fees
20:54
database fees to fund bail bondsmen
20:57
private probation companies electronic
20:59
monitoring companies drug testing
21:01
companies
21:02
it is disturbingly similar to the way
21:05
that we saw african-americans being
21:07
exploited in the post-war south
21:31
[Applause]
21:37
i’m the mario davis uh linebacker with
21:41
new orleans saints
21:42
i was born and raised in mississippi
21:44
pretty much raised by a single mom
21:47
entering into my second year of college
21:49
me and a teammate
21:50
were caught shoplifting groceries from
21:53
from walmart it kind of felt a lot more
21:55
like a drug bust
21:57
and uh um us
22:00
having stole some groceries the bail was
22:02
set at ten thousand dollars and
22:04
you know i have ten thousand dollars the
22:06
football coaches bailed us out
22:09
a misdemeanor you’re supposed to be able
22:10
to uh be in front of the judge within 90
22:13
days
22:14
but this is not happening this is not
22:16
happening in our country we have people
22:17
who are
22:18
spending seven eight months in jail who
22:21
have not even been
22:24
sentenced
22:27
[Music]
22:36
cop arrested me and i was charged with
22:37
the misdemeanor the term chain gang
22:40
was coined on account of the shackle
22:42
worn by convict laborers they said okay
22:44
listen we’re gonna let you go home now
22:46
but scram’s gonna come and uh put a
22:48
monitor on you
22:49
they were taken to an anvil where a
22:51
rivet was pounded into the ankle cuffs
22:53
to keep them
22:54
closed then the cuffs were chained
22:56
together
22:57
the initial fee to get on this ground
22:59
was
23:00
250 that’s just to have it put on
23:03
then after that they charged me 220 a
23:06
month
23:06
for the actual monitor many of the
23:08
convicts suffered from shackle sores
23:11
ulcers where the iron ground against
23:13
their skin
23:14
gangrene and other infections were also
23:16
common right after they put it on me
23:18
you start causing these really severe
23:20
sores and rashes and their attitude
23:23
pretty much is
23:24
it’s court-ordered it’s by a judge and
23:26
you’ll wear it
23:27
or you can go back to jail the emaciated
23:30
convict laborers worked their entire
23:32
days barefoot
23:33
but the shackles were always on their
23:35
ankles they mined in them
23:37
slept in them and those who died of
23:39
disease or beatings
23:41
were buried in them what they’re doing
23:42
is unjust what they’re doing is
23:44
profiteering because you you’re paying
23:46
them
23:46
you’re their slave with their shackle on
23:48
your foot
24:12
i remember this hopeless feeling just
24:15
overcome me
24:16
i couldn’t take care of my family the
24:18
biggest
24:19
misconception about misdemeanors is that
24:22
they are minor
24:23
the full consequences of getting a
24:25
misdemeanor can be astronomical
24:28
it hurt me for 10 years and it
24:31
completely disrupted my life
24:33
and i’ve been trying to figure out how
24:35
to get my life back on track
24:36
this will be a part of my story for the
24:39
rest of my life
24:41
when people are booked into jails
24:44
for a week or a year or even a day
24:49
you just cannot avoid the trauma
24:52
that’s inflicts upon you the moment you
24:54
hit the jail
24:55
you don’t come out of that unchanged or
24:58
untouched
24:59
you witness trauma you witness violence
25:01
and it changes you
25:03
it changes your community i tried to get
25:06
a job at amazon where my roommate worked
25:08
i called to walmart and i called to
25:11
several other retail stores
25:12
i got turned away because i had a
25:14
misdemeanor charge for theft
25:17
not enough people talk about what it
25:18
means to have a misdemeanor on your
25:20
record
25:20
it can determine the kind of job that
25:22
you get to the kind of housing that you
25:24
can qualify for
25:26
to the kind of schools that you can go
25:27
to a lot of people
25:30
are harmed for life because of the
25:33
smallest infractions
25:34
they’re being rendered homeless they’re
25:36
going without food without medication
25:38
their children are suffering
25:40
due to misdemeanors i lost my housing
25:43
shortly after that
25:44
i lost my vehicle which led to me losing
25:47
my job
25:48
and it was just one thing after another
25:51
like
25:51
like kicks to the face i had full
25:55
custody
25:56
of my children they had to get to school
26:00
we had to sleep in the car waking up at
26:03
like four in the morning
26:05
getting to a laundromat to make sure
26:08
that they had
26:08
clean school uniforms
26:11
and work so hard and all of that was
26:13
ruined by one charge
26:14
one misdemeanor ruined my ability to get
26:17
even just basic work
26:27
they can’t get a job if they have to
26:30
check a box that says they’ve been
26:32
convicted of a crime they can’t even
26:34
rent housing
26:35
because they got poor credit when they
26:38
received a ridiculous
26:41
500 speeding violation so
26:44
this system was designed both to extract
26:47
from people
26:48
but also to marginalize their presence
26:51
in society
26:56
[Applause]
27:07
it’s gonna be a mass grave site
27:10
this is a dormitory we stupid crowd
27:14
these are the beds they’re right beside
27:16
each other
27:17
and this is the space everybody just
27:20
dying and getting sick and [ __ ] like
27:22
this [ __ ]
27:22
serious as [ __ ] bro you all right mm-hmm
27:26
you want me to go get the police no what
27:28
have you done this [ __ ]
27:30
you ain’t gonna do nothing about it this
27:33
[ __ ] literally in this [ __ ]
27:34
dying bro
27:36
i don’t know what to do
27:39
one of the worst places to be during
27:40
this pandemic is locked up in jail
27:42
the judge never said i’m sending you to
27:44
prison to die the same horror story is
27:46
emerging
27:47
of the unchecked spread of infection and
27:49
inmates essentially
27:50
being left to die now jaywalking or
27:54
theft of a small amount or any sort of
27:57
vagrancy type of
27:59
behavior can lead to your incarceration
28:01
and eventual
28:02
contracting of the virus and death i’ve
28:05
been in jail for two and a half months
28:07
for ready death a non-violent crime that
28:10
carries a misdemeanor charge for the
28:12
price value of um
28:13
less than a hundred dollars there’s been
28:15
three deaths
28:17
two being inmates one being a guard as
28:19
far as like people who are working for
28:21
the facility
28:22
they’re like intertwined they could
28:24
easily be catching it
28:26
that’s how one of the guards caught it
28:29
my life is in danger
28:45
these human beings aren’t valued enough
28:48
for us to apply
28:49
the same kinds of safety measures there
28:52
that we are in other sectors of society
28:54
if it wasn’t already bad enough that you
28:57
are booked into jail
28:58
because you didn’t have the money to pay
29:00
the ticket and your license is suspended
29:03
that is now life-threatening to you
29:05
sheriff’s office is now releasing
29:07
non-violent inmates as a next step in
29:10
mitigating the spread of covenants
29:11
hundreds of inmates have been released
29:13
from shelby county’s jail
29:15
in an effort to put fewer people at risk
29:17
for corona virus
29:23
now they’re afraid people because of
29:25
covet 19
29:26
thousands of misdemeanor defendants are
29:28
rightly being released
29:29
it’s clear that these individuals should
29:31
have never been incarcerated in the
29:33
first place
29:34
we can tell by the fact that after these
29:36
releases we haven’t seen any sort of
29:38
crime wave
29:44
there’s a different type of crime wave
29:46
that should concern us though and that’s
29:48
the crime of violence against black
29:50
people post-civil war
29:55
[Applause]
29:59
state violence has historically been
30:01
used to intimidate
30:02
people of color especially black people
30:04
we see this all throughout history
30:14
misdemeanors they have almost nothing to
30:18
do with public safety
30:20
what misdemeanors do is give
30:23
police an extraordinary amount of
30:26
discretion
30:27
with any minor offense premised on
30:31
the idea that the black man is a threat
30:37
misdemeanors are a very specific
30:39
mechanism
30:40
that legalize violence toward black
30:43
people
30:43
and keep them in a very particular place
30:46
not just as individuals but as
30:48
an entire community of people
30:51
when we look at so many cases in history
30:54
often
30:55
what started as an investigation or
30:57
claim of a petty misdemeanor offense
30:59
led to police officers supported and
31:00
sanctioned racial terrorism
31:04
all too often we see police exercising
31:07
that terrible authority of violence
31:11
against people who have only been
31:14
suspected of the most minor of crime
31:19
the problem isn’t bad apple cops
31:22
the problem is the system is working the
31:24
way it’s supposed to
31:35
[Music]
31:39
police shot this boy outside my
31:41
apartment
31:44
i thank you
32:03
[Music]
32:20
pretty good
32:52
gray appeared to be unable to walk and
32:54
was screaming as he was carried
32:56
feet dragging on the ground to a police
32:58
van
33:02
[Music]
33:04
i know i know you just saw your job
33:11
[Music]
33:22
i can
33:27
[Music]
33:34
my life could have so easily been taken
33:36
in that skyway
33:39
george floyd goes to show further that
33:44
the most minor of offenses even
33:48
no offense at all could result in death
33:51
the very purpose
33:53
of racial terrorism is control is social
33:56
control
33:59
what we have seen in the killings of
34:01
those accused
34:03
was that misdemeanors became the gateway
34:06
for police violence and murder
34:21
[Music]
34:24
we are seeing decriminalization we are
34:27
seeing
34:28
citations instead of arrests we are
34:30
seeing people let out of jail we are
34:31
seeing pushback against fines and fees
34:34
but at the same time there is so much
34:36
more work that needs to be done
34:40
who defined what a misdemeanor is the
34:43
whole thing was built on exploitation
34:46
on racial violence on building up
34:48
industrial capitalism
34:51
we should not be locking up people who
34:54
speed
34:54
who are too poor to pay a fine or a fee
34:58
who loiter or trespass or jaywalk
35:01
they’re not dangerous they’re not scary
35:05
there’s never been a good reason to lock
35:08
up anybody for petty offenses
35:10
like slavery back in the day the law
35:14
itself
35:14
is doing the work of oppression the
35:17
criminal law
35:18
is providing the authority to arrest
35:22
black people to punish black people
35:25
to kill black people
35:28
and ultimately the real crime is that
35:31
we’re black
35:44
[Music]
36:18
when officers use their discretion and
36:20
still choose to arrest low-level
36:21
offenders instead of citing and
36:23
releasing them
36:23
they are choosing to lock a human into a
36:26
cage we wouldn’t even put our dogs in
36:39
we got 123 people out of the hayes
36:41
county jail yesterday
36:49
it eliminated the penalty for being
36:52
caught driving with a spinner license
36:54
from another two-year suspension to a
36:56
90-day suspension
36:57
[Music]
37:06
don’t allow the outside world
37:09
to corrupt you don’t don’t allow the
37:12
outside world
37:13
to tell you who you are
37:21
i wanted to be a voice for those who
37:24
are not able to be a voice for
37:26
[Music]
37:34
themselves
37:43
[Music]
38:42
much for joining us to the members of
38:45
the press that are on this
38:47
zoom we’d love to take your questions so
38:50
please feel free to put them in the q
38:52
a and we will get to them during this
38:54
conversation
38:56
i’m now going to turn it over to our
38:58
guests who will each speak
39:00
to their personal experiences what they
39:02
believe is most important about this
39:04
film
39:05
and how it relates to the work that
39:07
they’re doing
39:09
mary moriarty is an attorney who served
39:12
as the chief public defender of hennepin
39:14
county
39:14
minnesota until 2020. during her time
39:18
working for the county
39:19
she and her team shined a light on the
39:21
inequities
39:22
in the criminal legal system
39:23
specifically when it came to racially
39:26
biased police stings
39:28
and traffic stops mary
39:34
thank you
39:38
so a couple of things that stood out to
39:41
me
39:44
the the idea that the courts have really
39:46
given
39:47
law enforcement uh discretion
39:51
and one of the problems with
39:53
misdemeanors is
39:54
it gives police officers an opportunity
39:58
to
39:58
interact with a member of the community
40:01
simply based on an officer’s suspicion
40:04
that a misdemeanor might have been
40:05
committed
40:06
and in fact we have something called
40:08
pretext stops
40:10
that the united states supreme court
40:12
says are legal
40:13
and so all that’s required is that a
40:16
police officer
40:17
who might be following a car be able to
40:20
articulate
40:21
something that the driver actually did
40:24
like fail to signal a turn
40:26
um something of that nature which
40:28
everybody does
40:29
cops will tell you if they follow
40:30
somebody for long enough they will
40:32
do something like that and then it gives
40:35
the cop
40:36
the opportunity to interact with that
40:38
person and
40:39
and look through their car and that is
40:42
where we see
40:43
a lot of black men and women
40:46
who have lost their lives because police
40:49
officers have escalated those situations
40:52
which were really based on a suspicion
40:54
of a misdemeanor
40:56
so that’s extremely problematic and i
40:58
wanted to mention philando castile for a
41:01
moment
41:01
um i sometimes people forget that he was
41:05
actually pulled over by law enforcement
41:08
something like 50 times on various
41:12
misdemeanors
41:13
and ultimately as we know he was shot
41:15
and killed
41:16
when he was pulled over for one of those
41:18
misdemeanors so so
41:20
part of the issue here isn’t even about
41:23
the enforcement or the final if somebody
41:25
is convicted it does
41:26
give law enforcement way too much
41:29
discretion to
41:30
investigate and i i followed mr lawley’s
41:33
case um
41:34
i watched that happen and if you look at
41:36
the video there you can see
41:38
um other people walking by yet the
41:40
police
41:41
chose to focus their attention on mr
41:44
lawley
41:45
um and that’s an example of them
41:47
exercising discretion
41:49
which we know lands a lot more on
41:53
black residents you mentioned that we
41:55
our team
41:56
at the hennepin county public defender’s
41:57
office did do some research using the
42:00
minneapolis police department data
42:01
dashboard
42:02
and that was about stops and there were
42:05
uh
42:05
really really large racial disparities
42:08
for people pulled over
42:09
and people stopped and people searched
42:12
so
42:13
and there’s no there’s all kinds of
42:15
research around the country
42:17
uh it’s very clear that police officers
42:19
pull over
42:20
black and brown people at a much higher
42:22
rate than they do white people
42:24
there’s also research that says black
42:26
and brown people aren’t committing more
42:27
crimes than white people
42:30
there’s also research that they aren’t
42:32
caught with contraband anymore as well
42:34
so it’s not a good uh tactic or strategy
42:38
and it is incredibly dangerous the other
42:41
thing i wanted to do is kind of skip to
42:42
the
42:43
end you know a misdemeanor isn’t just a
42:46
misdemeanor because
42:47
as we know people can be convicted of
42:50
the misdemeanor and we
42:51
we saw in the film that there were fines
42:54
and other consequences there
42:56
but there’s something called and it was
42:58
referenced in the film called a
42:59
collateral consequence
43:02
which has a really misleading name
43:05
and i’ve been a public defender i just
43:07
retired friday actually for 31 years
43:09
and the legislature and regulatory
43:12
bodies have
43:13
added so many consequences to
43:16
convictions
43:17
that are not really collateral because
43:19
you can
43:21
find it very difficult to rent an
43:23
apartment buy a house
43:25
uh in this in this rental market if you
43:28
have some kind of misdemeanor conviction
43:29
on your record
43:31
is a landlord going to choose to rent to
43:33
you you may not be able to live in
43:35
public housing with your grandmother
43:37
um you may not have access to certain
43:40
licenses for instance you can’t be a
43:42
barber
43:42
uh with certain convictions or a pca
43:46
and very often people aren’t told that
43:48
when they plead guilty to
43:50
these types of offenses and then later
43:53
on
43:54
uh they apply for some kind of license
43:56
and they find out
43:58
they no longer can do the career that
44:00
they wanted to do
44:01
because of this misdemeanor conviction
44:04
um and i think as the film said there
44:06
are over nine thousand i think they’re
44:07
even more
44:08
uh nine thousand the nine thousand
44:10
statutes for collateral consequences
44:12
which just seem to grow and grow
44:15
so that’s also a huge problem uh the
44:18
last thing i wanted to say was
44:19
when um kovat came to the courts
44:24
the court in minneapolis and hennepin
44:26
county wanted to open the court system
44:28
for out-of-custody misdemeanors
44:31
and they wanted to open it up and make
44:34
clients public defender clients many of
44:36
whom are unfortunately black
44:38
and brown um come to court uh without
44:42
screening
44:42
um and people were coming to court and
44:45
they were sick
44:47
and the people who interacted with them
44:49
were our staff
44:50
because the judges and clerks were
44:51
behind plexiglass
44:53
and we had many discussions about that
44:55
and it was very clear
44:57
that the judge’s value was more about
45:00
getting people processed and not getting
45:03
behind
45:05
and that was more value to them rather
45:07
than
45:08
making people who may have coveted
45:11
who may be sick come in who were afraid
45:14
not to come in because they might get a
45:15
bench warrant
45:16
so there’s a huge shift that we need
45:19
with judges
45:20
and prosecutors when we look towards
45:22
misdemeanors
45:24
thank you
45:37
sorry thank you so much mary that was
45:41
really good to hear from you and your
45:42
perspective as public defender
45:45
i want to turn it over to chris lolly
45:47
right now
45:49
chris who is also featured in the film
45:51
experienced
45:53
this misdemeanor system first hand he
45:56
was waiting as you saw on the film to
45:57
pick up his children from day daycare
45:59
and saint paul
46:00
when he was arrested for questioning why
46:02
he was being detained and he now
46:04
uses his experience and platform to
46:07
advocate
46:08
for change and chris love to hear your
46:12
thoughts all right thank you thank you
46:15
so much for having me again
46:17
uh this film is just amazing
46:20
it’s almost it’s like watching it the
46:22
first time every time i see it it’s just
46:24
it’s amazing but i’m glad we brought
46:27
this to minnesota uh
46:29
for the field for the uh screening
46:31
there’s a lot that’s been going on
46:33
uh as far as there’s another death that
46:36
another murder
46:37
really that just happened um in
46:39
minneapolis
46:40
uh winston smith which was
46:43
unnecessary to say the the extreme least
46:46
right but living in minnesota for the
46:48
better part of 20 years my mom moved us
46:50
there from
46:51
chicago in around 2000
46:54
um and being young i didn’t really
46:56
understand
46:58
but it was a culture shock right and
46:59
minnesota is one of those places where
47:03
um the the black population isn’t even
47:05
really
47:06
that big right there’s only about 300
47:08
000 black people
47:10
um in minnesota as a whole right so
47:14
i didn’t really understand that
47:15
discrepancy until i got a little older
47:17
and i realized like
47:18
all my friends had misdemeanors like men
47:21
and women
47:22
and they were all black right and at a
47:25
certain point i realized it and i was
47:26
like it just seems like
47:28
they don’t want us here and this was
47:31
just like a gut a gut feeling right like
47:33
i didn’t have any statistics or anything
47:35
to back this up
47:36
but seeing the experiences of
47:39
not only my friends but myself
47:42
it did like mary said it just seems like
47:45
the system was set up
47:47
to keep us in a certain predicament or
47:50
situation
47:52
and ultimately it just seemed like they
47:54
didn’t want black people
47:56
in minnesota in general especially
47:59
being from chicago it seemed like there
48:00
was a
48:02
there’s an energy when you tell people
48:03
you’re from chicago and minnesota
48:06
that almost feels like when they say oh
48:08
or maybe you should go back to africa
48:10
you know it’s that type of energy i’ll
48:12
go back to chicago
48:14
i don’t think minnesota necessarily
48:16
wanted us there and i think
48:18
the laws and the police pretty much make
48:20
it apparent and then
48:22
the the minnesota nice ideology
48:26
which is basically smiling your face and
48:28
stab you in the back
48:30
uh mixed with racism is one of the most
48:34
sickening things in minnesota if if you
48:36
deal
48:37
if you dealt with it and you see it
48:39
racism makes with minnesota nice
48:41
is a terrible thing to deal with and
48:44
then when you add
48:46
legality on top of it and misdemeanors
48:48
and things like that
48:50
it’s it’s a horrible situation and what
48:52
happened
48:53
after the skyway incident showed me
48:57
a lot more than i had ever seen um i
49:00
stuck around for a while i stayed in
49:02
minnesota
49:03
and i advocated for a lot of things for
49:06
minnesota
49:07
but there were a lot of groups so many
49:10
groups
49:10
i can’t even begin to list them that
49:15
basically they tried to use me for their
49:18
own personal
49:20
agendas with whatever they wanted to do
49:22
and i
49:23
i guess i was so naive that i really
49:26
gave all of these
49:28
groups my energy and my time and it was
49:30
extremely draining
49:32
but a lot of people use these situations
49:35
as a way to gain more for themselves
49:37
as opposed to really trying to change
49:40
the culture of minnesota in which
49:43
the culture of minnesota is really uh
49:45
you know part of my french is shitty
49:47
um that’s the best way i can put it um
49:49
but to change the culture in minnesota
49:51
would mean people would have to come
49:52
together and realize
49:54
what’s actually happening to our people
49:57
in minnesota
49:58
to change it on a higher level than just
50:02
um community we need community action
50:04
but
50:05
it’s it’s so broad on a higher level
50:09
that a lot of people aren’t really
50:10
paying attention to and i think this
50:13
film
50:14
really shows how deep
50:17
and how high this goes especially for
50:20
minnesota because we keep hearing these
50:22
stories
50:22
coming out of minnesota where is
50:26
just racially based right like
50:29
it seems like black people in minnesota
50:31
are having a really hard time and i had
50:33
to leave for myself
50:35
i’m living in georgia now which i
50:37
realized that
50:39
some places aren’t good for some people
50:42
right and uh
50:44
that the change in my life when i moved
50:46
down here has been exponential
50:48
um it’s it’s everything’s been going
50:50
really good but even when i tried to
50:51
stay in minnesota and work things
50:53
through and
50:54
and help people it was it came to know
50:57
fruition
50:58
so i really hope people see this video
51:01
and see this film
51:03
and understand that there’s so much work
51:05
that needs to be done
51:07
for minnesota to be an equitable place
51:09
for black people to live
51:11
it’s the second or third worst place in
51:13
america
51:15
statistically for black people to live
51:18
so
51:19
we’re we have a it’s a tall task ahead
51:22
of us
51:22
to change the dynamic of how minnesota
51:26
treats
51:27
its population which
51:30
five percent of it is black people but
51:32
we’re still a part of the population and
51:34
we deserve to be treated with
51:36
respect and dignity all right so
51:39
i appreciate y’all for having me i think
51:41
i’ll finish with that yeah
51:44
of course thanks for that chris um
51:48
okay next up we would love to hear from
51:50
irene joe
51:51
who is a professor at uc davis school of
51:53
law
51:54
her research focuses on the design of
51:57
the criminal process and its effect
51:59
on institutional attorneys to manage
52:02
overwhelming caseloads
52:04
and comply with ethical requirements
52:07
before uc davis
52:09
professor joe was served as a fellow for
52:11
the equal justice initiative
52:13
of alabama where she represented
52:15
represented
52:16
indigent defendants in capital
52:18
post-conviction litigation
52:20
and children sentenced to life in prison
52:22
without the possibility
52:23
of parole and as an educator
52:26
we’d love to hear your perspective
52:30
yes thank you jill and thank you brave
52:32
new films and
52:33
robert greenwald for creating this film
52:37
i very much appreciated the opportunity
52:39
to share my perspective and expertise on
52:41
the misdemeanor problem that pervades
52:43
our criminal justice process as part of
52:45
this documentary
52:46
and so it’s really wonderful to see it
52:49
live in this way i’d be remiss if i
52:52
didn’t you know take this moment to
52:53
really thank alexandre nadapov for
52:55
writing the book
52:56
punishment without crime that inspired
52:58
the documentary
52:59
as well as each of the system-impacted
53:02
people who are willing to share their
53:04
painful experiences
53:05
as part of this film production every
53:09
year in my first year criminal law class
53:12
me and at least 50 first-year law
53:14
students
53:15
talk about the agonizing video of chris
53:17
lawley’s pain in that minnesota skyway
53:19
as he waited for his children and what
53:21
his experience
53:22
means about our criminal process we also
53:25
talk about
53:27
chris’s passion and activism and
53:28
artistry afterwards and what that
53:30
calls us to do as lawyers and future
53:32
lawyers so
53:33
it’s it’s truly an honor to have been a
53:35
part of this film with him and to be on
53:38
this panel
53:39
with him today in many ways this
53:42
documentary epitomizes why i became a
53:45
legal academic
53:46
um as as jill mentioned in her
53:48
introduction
53:49
i started off my career as a criminal
53:51
defense attorney at the equal justice
53:53
initiative of alabama
53:54
where i represented people on death row
53:56
and children sense to die in prison
53:58
really
53:58
because of their life without poor
54:00
senses and then i
54:02
joined a new public defender’s office in
54:04
new orleans louisiana
54:06
that was created in the wake of
54:08
hurricane katrina
54:10
the the energy and the expertise and the
54:12
engagement
54:14
on the ground in new orleans was unique
54:16
it was awe-inspiring
54:17
and it was really encouraging but one of
54:19
the things that i noticed
54:21
was the way in which the criminal court
54:23
and indeed to a degree the public
54:25
defender’s office treated misdemeanor
54:27
cases
54:27
in comparison to how they treated felony
54:29
cases
54:31
i think it’s precisely because i came
54:34
from doing death penalty work
54:35
that has struck me so strongly perhaps
54:38
if i had gone from doing
54:40
death penalty work to representing
54:41
clients in felony court i wouldn’t have
54:43
noticed just how stark
54:45
the difference in attention given to
54:47
misdemeanor cases
54:48
and the resulting impact of misdemeanors
54:51
in the community
54:52
i was fortunate enough to serve as a
54:53
public defender
54:55
the misdemeanor court system was so
54:57
different
54:58
than the system for people facing
55:00
execution alabama and yes
55:02
of course death itself is different
55:05
but the racism and the classism that
55:08
permeates
55:09
capital punishment and calls so many
55:11
attorneys including myself to do that
55:13
kind of defense work
55:15
also exists with misdemeanor cases so
55:18
seeing how dismissive judges
55:20
and prosecutors were towards those
55:22
facing misdemeanor charges
55:24
and as i said to a degree seeing the
55:26
lesser emphasis public defenders
55:28
could place on attacking those judicial
55:31
and prosecutorial behaviors
55:32
in comparison to how they could attack
55:34
those behaviors in felony court
55:36
it all seemed to me inconsistent
55:39
with um the system’s reported dedication
55:43
to equal treatment under the law as the
55:46
film points out
55:47
the us criminal justice system is just
55:49
really effective
55:51
at controlling the movement and behavior
55:52
of black people you can’t spend time
55:55
working
55:55
in the nation’s criminal courts without
55:57
seeing that for a fact
55:59
black people have to exist in a space
56:01
where the institutional actors
56:03
of the criminal process pick them up out
56:04
of their homes out of their schools out
56:05
of their jobs out of their communities
56:07
and transplant them into an environment
56:09
where they are figuratively and
56:10
literally
56:11
restrained and it renders them only able
56:14
to do as i mentioned in the documentary
56:15
certain things
56:16
at certain times and in certain spaces
56:19
and misdemeanors are the most expansive
56:21
power
56:21
the government uses in doing that so
56:24
these so-called minor charges
56:26
and minor behaviors allow and even
56:28
encourage the government to intensely
56:30
monitor
56:31
and harass african-american people they
56:33
set these boundaries
56:34
for how black people are able to exist
56:36
and punish any slight deviation
56:39
under the color of these so-called
56:41
objective laws
56:43
and you saw that every day in mr mirror
56:45
court
56:46
for example even the very way
56:49
misdemeanor charges were
56:50
handled right the vast majority of the
56:52
misdemeanor process
56:53
was handled by magistrate commissioners
56:56
in new orleans and not elected judges
56:57
right so these commissioners
56:59
did it as a second job right as it to
57:01
emphasize how unimportant it was
57:03
court would start in the the late
57:05
afternoon and often it was so
57:06
disorganized that it would stretch to
57:08
all hours of the night with little
57:10
regard for the other responsibilities be
57:12
they
57:12
work family or personal that those
57:15
facing
57:16
the criminal charges might have had and
57:18
and that meant that people were just
57:19
sitting in the courtroom for hours
57:22
confined to that space
57:23
and that was before the convictions that
57:25
would come right the convictions that
57:27
would lead to jail time
57:28
probation fines that were difficult to
57:31
pay
57:31
job losses electronic monitoring um
57:34
other surveillance
57:36
similar problems um exist in felony
57:39
court right of course but
57:41
one misdemeanor cases are a much bigger
57:44
percentage of criminal court dockets
57:46
than felony cases
57:47
and despite that reality those effects
57:50
and misdemeanor cases just
57:51
don’t get as much attention as they do
57:53
in felony cases
57:55
when you hear the data and you learn the
57:57
history of mystery or crimes you have to
57:58
see the connection
58:00
in how misdemeanors are used to manage
58:02
and control the very existence of people
58:05
and behaviors who certain decision
58:07
makers considered undesirable
58:10
and you realize quite quickly that what
58:12
those decision makers thought was
58:14
undesirable
58:15
was black people doing ordinary things
58:18
right
58:18
so one of my interests as an academic is
58:20
to draw attention
58:22
to that but primarily through the lens
58:24
of how public defenders
58:26
who by some estimates represent about 80
58:28
percent of those facing criminal charges
58:30
can better address the systemic racism
58:32
in the mystery process
58:34
i have a deep love and respect for
58:36
public defenders i admire them so much
58:38
i feel honored as to be a panel to be on
58:41
this panel with
58:42
two of them you know one mary moriarty
58:44
who helped train and develop me as a
58:46
public defender right
58:47
and i remember my own commitment and
58:50
dedication to my clients
58:51
and i recognize those same foundational
58:54
principles and so many public defenders
58:56
i worked with back then and those that i
58:57
meet and speak with now as an academic
59:00
but our system of mass incarceration and
59:02
turning to the penal process to further
59:04
marginalize people
59:06
means that public defenders are
59:07
overwhelmed and they often have to make
59:09
very
59:09
difficult choices about what they
59:12
prioritize
59:13
in their legal practice and far too
59:15
often clients charged with misdemeanor
59:16
offenses
59:17
suffer the consequences of those
59:19
prioritization decisions
59:21
um we’re actually coming upon the 60th
59:24
anniversary
59:25
of this case gideon versus wainwright
59:27
that’s the supreme court
59:28
decision from 1963 um
59:32
that’s popularly considered the case
59:34
that established our
59:35
modern iteration of the public defender
59:38
um so we’re coming across
59:39
upon that anniversary in about two more
59:41
years uh there’s right there
59:43
is you know rightly so much attention
59:46
paid to that case and what it meant for
59:48
our nation and how we need to make sure
59:50
the promises
59:51
of gideon are fulfilled most law
59:53
students and i expect the majority of
59:55
public defenders
59:56
know the story of gideon who is charged
59:58
with
59:59
breaking and entering into a pool hall
60:01
writing a petition to the supreme court
60:03
and being vindicated in his demand and
60:06
request for an attorney
60:07
and changing the course of history when
60:09
it comes to how our criminal process
60:11
works
60:11
but that case itself provided the right
60:14
to a free attorney for defendants facing
60:16
felony charges
60:17
and it wasn’t until almost a decade
60:18
later in 1972
60:20
that the right to counsel was extended
60:22
to defendants facing misdemeanor charges
60:24
in state court
60:25
right that case was argusinger versus
60:26
hamlin so that means that next year
60:29
is the 50th anniversary of the case
60:31
establishing the right to a public
60:33
defender for defendants
60:34
facing misdemeanor charges and my hope
60:36
is that
60:37
this documentary encourages public
60:40
defenders and indeed
60:41
all people to reflect on how the
60:44
promises of the court decision
60:46
and argussing are still need to be fully
60:48
realized
60:49
i expect to see many more of my
60:53
law students become public defenders
60:55
over the next few years given this
60:57
moment of racial reckoning that they’ve
60:59
all had to experience
61:01
and i’m grateful that this film will be
61:04
a part of their
61:05
understanding of the criminal process
61:07
and and the role
61:09
that the misdemeanor system plays in
61:11
exacerbating
61:12
um the racialized injustice that they
61:14
are going to to try to fight against
61:17
as future public defenders i’m glad to
61:19
have been a part of it
61:20
and and i’m i’m very excited and happy
61:23
that all of you were able
61:24
to watch and experience it
61:28
thank you so much uh we’re going to hear
61:31
next from nadine graves and then we have
61:33
a couple questions from the press
61:35
um nadine graves is a former public
61:38
defender
61:38
who has represented hundreds of people
61:41
charged with criminal offenses ranging
61:42
from misdemeanors to felonies
61:45
she also serves on the board for we are
61:47
all criminals
61:48
which is an organization dedicated to
61:51
challenging society’s perceptions of
61:53
what it means to be a criminal
61:56
uh nadine would love to hear your
61:57
thoughts on this film and also about the
61:58
work
61:59
we are criminals is doing thank you
62:01
thank you for having me
62:03
um i appreciate this film very much
62:06
mary touched on a lot of points that i
62:08
wanted to talk about
62:09
um specifically there was mention about
62:13
um mary mentioned philando castile and
62:15
how many times he was stopped
62:17
and in the film they mentioned about how
62:19
a lot of individuals know
62:21
police officers by name because they’ve
62:23
been entered they’ve been
62:24
had to encounter them and so many times
62:27
and i saw that a lot as a public
62:28
defender in hennepin county
62:30
it was almost like the the police
62:33
officers were the gang
62:34
um in the gang tax force and and and
62:37
policing people for very low level
62:39
things um standing around loitering they
62:41
were getting cited for
62:42
trespassing they were getting cited for
62:45
um
62:45
being in a high crime area they were
62:47
stopping them and so a lot of just
62:49
harassment and social control has been
62:52
happening here for
62:53
too many years um through we are
62:55
criminals we
62:56
talk about how we are all criminals in
62:58
the sense that
62:59
everyone has done something that is a
63:01
crime and as you see in the film
63:03
just about the smallest infraction can
63:05
be a reason to have an
63:07
encounter with a police officer if it’s
63:09
driving on the road and your
63:10
tires touch the white line that gives an
63:12
officer a reason to stop you
63:14
and it’s a fishing expedition because if
63:16
you’re a person of color they stop you
63:18
they
63:19
can say they sell smell marijuana and
63:20
then they’re searching through the
63:21
vehicle
63:22
i’ve seen that too many times um
63:25
additionally
63:26
one of the ladies mentioned just not
63:28
having money and
63:30
could have donated plasma well here in
63:32
minnesota i’ve seen on too many body
63:34
cams where the officers sit in the
63:36
plasma
63:37
parking lot and run the license plates
63:39
to see who has
63:40
a suspended license who has a warrant
63:42
and so you know you’re targeting a
63:44
certain population of people
63:46
who are already struggling financially
63:48
and now you’re going to further
63:49
inconvenience them
63:51
through the misdemeanor or whatever you
63:53
can find
63:54
and these are the type of cases that the
63:57
misdemeanor a team
63:58
were taking to trial and it sound you
64:01
know it’s frustrating
64:02
that you’re exerting so much energy for
64:05
misdemeanor
64:06
offenses that are so minor but they are
64:08
so major
64:09
in a sense in how they affect the people
64:10
we represented
64:12
i would have people that would be
64:13
incarcerated pre-conviction
64:16
and losing housing losing jobs not being
64:19
able to get to their children not
64:20
knowing who has their children
64:22
just being cut off completely because
64:24
they’re being inconvenienced
64:26
for something very minor one story that
64:29
stands out to me
64:30
from a client he got cited for
64:33
public intoxication but the funny part
64:36
of where he was standing
64:37
was on nicolette avenue and this is
64:39
popular um street in minneapolis where
64:41
there’s a bunch of restaurants and bars
64:43
and any given day pre-pandemic you would
64:46
see
64:47
at least 100 people outside at these
64:49
restaurants drinking
64:50
so as he’s getting detained he’s
64:52
pointing at the people
64:54
that are sitting there drinking and why
64:55
am i getting arrested for public
64:57
intoxication
64:58
or for having this bottle here when
65:00
there’s literally somebody there with a
65:01
bottle on their table
65:02
so it was glaring how absurd um the
65:06
application of the law is to certain
65:08
people
65:09
um again through we are criminals we
65:11
talk a lot about the collateral
65:13
consequences which emily
65:14
or not emily mary touched on earlier um
65:17
but
65:18
similarly if someone has a theft case
65:21
you may just think it’s a small theft no
65:23
big deal well that disqualifies them
65:25
from
65:26
jobs that are governed by department of
65:28
human services so they can’t
65:30
work in a nursing home they can’t work
65:32
in a daycare they can’t even get
65:33
licensed
65:34
to be a foster care provider if they
65:36
have a loved one that’s in the foster
65:37
care system
65:38
so these misdemeanors have long lasting
65:40
effects on people’s lives
65:42
and um you wonder for what reason
65:45
what is it making us any safer it’s not
65:48
like it’s
65:48
doing any of that and so i’m grateful
65:51
that this film exists
65:53
i’m grateful that people are brave
65:55
enough to share their stories
65:57
and because as dr joe said the public
65:59
defenders have been seeing it for
66:01
many many years i’m grateful for the
66:04
data that’s being put out there and i
66:05
just hope that there is effective change
66:07
that comes about
66:08
i know right now in minnesota we
66:10
recently changed some legislation on
66:13
driving infractions um licensing fees
66:17
and so those are things that were used
66:19
in misdemeanor courts as well
66:20
where individuals if you didn’t show up
66:22
to court your license could get
66:24
suspended and now if your license
66:25
suspended that’s another reason for an
66:26
officer to pull you over
66:28
so there’s small changes that are
66:29
happening but i would love to see
66:32
more
66:41
thank you so much we have uh
66:46
two questions the first question i i’d
66:49
like to throw to
66:51
um mary who’s the former hennepin county
66:54
public defender
66:55
the question is minnesota misdemeanor
66:57
this is from randy first from star
66:59
tribune
67:01
minnesota misdemeanors include petty
67:03
theft public intoxication
67:06
simple assault shoplifting vandalism
67:09
reckless driving indecent exposure for
67:11
example
67:12
how should such cases be handled by
67:15
authorities
67:17
um thanks for the question randy um you
67:20
know we
67:20
we have it’s consuming in public
67:24
uh we have public urination several
67:26
years ago we actually
67:28
our office had four jury trials on
67:30
public urination
67:32
and all the clients were convicted and i
67:34
remember a prosecutor asking me
67:36
why do you think that is and i said well
67:38
you know maybe jurors
67:40
wondered why they were wasting their
67:41
time coming down
67:44
to hear a public urination case when
67:47
um i suspect many of us have seen public
67:50
urination after minnesota vikings games
67:53
so it goes back to what nadine said in
67:55
terms of
67:56
there there are things there are
67:58
behaviors that people do
68:00
um that are criminalized for other
68:03
people
68:03
there are behaviors that people do in
68:06
public
68:07
because they’re unsheltered you know
68:09
anybody who wants to drink
68:11
alcohol who has shelter can drink in
68:14
their house
68:15
but just by virtue of walking down the
68:17
street with an open container or
68:19
consuming alcohol in public you can be
68:22
charged and that happens to a lot
68:24
of people who are unsheltered so i i
68:26
would say we
68:27
we need to make some of these things not
68:30
criminal
68:31
why you know and frankly the answer to
68:34
um public urination is to put
68:36
uh public uh porta potties around i mean
68:40
that’s the issue people don’t have a
68:42
place
68:43
uh to go if they’re unsheltered or if
68:45
they’re coming from a vikings game or
68:46
something like that
68:47
so a lot of these actions don’t need to
68:50
be criminalized at all
68:52
for some things like you said simple
68:55
assault
68:56
there would be a good way of diverting
68:59
those types of cases before somebody’s
69:01
ever charged
69:03
restorative practices before somebody’s
69:06
charged because i think in this day and
69:07
age once you have a charge
69:09
on your record um landlords can see that
69:13
jobs can see that so i think the goal
69:15
should be to keep
69:16
people from coming into the system via
69:18
arrest
69:20
uh there are also i i look at downtown
69:23
minneapolis and i
69:24
i there all the time i feel very
69:26
comfortable there but it’s pretty clear
69:28
that there are a lot of people
69:30
um who who don’t like looking at certain
69:33
behavior
69:34
and who frankly are uncomfortable
69:36
looking at black youth
69:38
downtown and you know there are
69:41
businesses who will
69:42
call 9-1-1 because somebody
69:45
you know a group of black men youth
69:49
hanging out um scaring people away
69:52
and that isn’t a crime it isn’t a crime
69:54
to be a black youth and to be in
69:56
downtown
69:57
so a lot of these are social issues that
70:01
have to do with others
70:02
that should not be criminalized and we
70:05
should not allow police officers
70:08
to be interacting with
70:11
people who are who have just as right to
70:13
be downtown as anybody else most of the
70:16
crimes that you put up there are also
70:18
something that happens because people
70:19
have a need
70:20
like theft a lot of people steal food
70:23
like we saw in the film
70:24
um or you know we see people
70:28
steal baby formula diapers stuff like
70:30
that
70:31
people who steal a misdemeanor amount of
70:34
thing
70:35
don’t need to be in the system so i
70:37
think
70:38
we can make many of those not criminal
70:41
they don’t need to be criminal we can
70:43
also be much more creative
70:45
in diverting people who are accused of
70:49
those types of
70:50
crimes by not charging them by sending
70:53
them to
70:53
diversion programs or by
70:57
doing restorative justice practices
70:59
which i think
71:00
i know would be much more effective than
71:03
what we do now
71:04
because a lot of times police will book
71:07
somebody in downtown
71:08
on a what’s called a probable cause hold
71:10
and they’ll just wait until their hold
71:12
runs out and that
71:13
costs taxpayers money and it also
71:16
there’s really good research about the
71:18
fact that just putting somebody
71:19
in jail for as little as 24 or 48 hours
71:23
can completely destabilize their lives
71:25
and
71:26
result in them committing another crime
71:29
losing their housing losing their job
71:32
so many people work at a job such as a
71:35
mcdonald’s where they don’t have days
71:36
off and so if they are
71:38
in jail they are going to lose their job
71:40
so for a lot of those misdemeanors they
71:42
don’t need to be crimes at all
71:44
um but for the ones where there does
71:46
need to be some intervention
71:48
i don’t think most of those people need
71:50
to be charged
71:52
and that we could uh rely upon
71:55
uh alternatives which are more about
71:57
accountability
71:59
uh than punishment
72:03
agree and the next question you you’ve
72:04
touched on this mary but
72:06
i’m gonna throw this to nadine what
72:09
changes in law
72:10
are recommended by panelists regarding
72:13
misdemeanors also from randy at star
72:15
tribune
72:17
i think mary hit on a lot of them as far
72:20
as just decriminalizing things that
72:22
shouldn’t be criminal um the petty
72:25
thefts
72:25
those are there’s diversion programs
72:27
that are available for that
72:29
public intoxication she already noted
72:31
just put up port-o-potties you could
72:32
avoid that
72:34
trespassing individuals they’re
72:36
restorative programs that you can put in
72:38
to address the concerns
72:40
that people actually have the issue is
72:42
as mary
72:43
noted there is disparities and who
72:46
is getting policed and so we could
72:48
change all the laws that
72:50
we want to change but if people are
72:51
still uncomfortable with seeing black
72:53
youth together
72:54
there’s nothing i can do about that
72:56
until unless you continue to do what the
72:58
work that we all criminals is doing
73:00
and exposing that and causing people to
73:03
check themselves and like why
73:04
am i uncomfortable with seeing black
73:06
youth together but i’m not uncomfortable
73:08
at the new hope swimming pool where
73:10
there’s a bunch of white youth together
73:11
you know similar stuff like that i think
73:13
is is a huge um i think also
73:15
decriminalizing marijuana
73:17
because i’ve seen that in too many cases
73:19
where officers are saying
73:21
they’re pulling someone over because of
73:22
that substance substance
73:24
check the car and there’s none of that
73:26
substance in there so it could very well
73:28
be in the neighborhood someone was
73:29
smoking
73:30
but why is that a reason where you’re
73:31
pulling somebody over when there’s no
73:33
driving conduct
73:34
there’s nothing no other reason for you
73:36
to pull them over
73:37
so i think those would be my starts on
73:39
changes in the law
73:42
thank you uh before i
73:46
close is there anything anyone else
73:48
wants to mention
73:49
in response to any of those questions or
73:50
that’s come to mind from any of the
73:52
other panelists
73:55
chris yep yep uh yeah i read this
73:58
question
73:58
uh you know i’m not too astute as far as
74:01
logos
74:02
right but i do believe um having
74:06
armed officers um
74:09
approach people who have
74:12
petty misdemeanors like you know theft
74:14
and things like that
74:16
is it’s overkill right like
74:19
and and having warrants on on the top of
74:21
that like you know
74:23
it just gives them way too much leeway
74:27
to completely destroy someone’s life
74:31
right so
74:33
decriminalizing some of the some of
74:35
these
74:36
misdemeanors i think would is definitely
74:38
necessary but also
74:40
having i don’t feel like we need armed
74:43
people
74:44
accosting someone who
74:47
isn’t a threat that deserves or needs to
74:51
you know have a firearm
74:54
in the vicinity right like certain
74:57
crimes
74:58
don’t need that much uh energy so i feel
75:01
like it’s overkill right so i
75:03
i feel like the police officers could
75:05
really change
75:07
by having
75:11
i don’t know the word to use but like a
75:12
community person
75:14
in the car with them right like we don’t
75:15
need two officers
75:17
armed to the teeth in the community all
75:20
the time right like
75:21
just having someone with them like for
75:24
mediation
75:25
you know i’m saying i feel like that
75:26
would be much better
75:28
as opposed to them using these
75:30
misdemeanors to
75:32
basically perpetuate racism i mean it’s
75:34
just the simplest way to do it
75:36
right so and now that a light is being
75:38
shined on it and
75:39
and people are actually seeing like this
75:42
is what it’s created for
75:43
so you know we have to change the minds
75:46
in the hearts but also we have to change
75:50
so how they interact with these laws and
75:52
the people that
75:54
are quote unquote breaking these you
75:56
know
75:57
misdemeanor laws or whatever so
76:02
that’s right yeah the only thing i would
76:05
add and that might just be the academic
76:07
in me is i think it’s also really
76:08
important
76:09
in addition to everything excellent that
76:11
everybody has already stated
76:12
that we continue to try to gather the
76:14
data right
76:15
and to make sure we have the information
76:17
about who’s getting arrested where
76:18
they’re getting arrested where are
76:19
police officers
76:20
targeting their attention how are they
76:22
targeting it where are prosec
76:24
how are prosecutors making decisions
76:25
about which cases to go forward
76:27
what plea offers are being um extended
76:30
how are probation
76:31
officers handling their probation uh
76:33
their probation needs like
76:35
all of that stuff all that data i think
76:36
is really important for us um one of my
76:39
areas of interest is really how
76:41
how we can learn from the mistakes of
76:42
the past and and part of the way you do
76:44
that is
76:45
really understanding what you have and
76:47
what’s what’s in existence
76:52
i think that’s a great point i know the
76:54
hennepin county public defender’s office
76:56
does a tremendous job on collecting that
76:57
data
76:58
and using that data and their litigation
77:00
so i just want to highlight that and
77:01
commend them to continue to do so
77:03
i think it’s an excellent way to educate
77:05
the bench you educate the prosecutors
77:07
and
77:08
hopefully if the case makes it to trial
77:10
you’re educating the jurors on what
77:11
they’re seeing
77:12
um you know as in minneapolis as chris
77:15
mentioned
77:16
earlier in minnesota the demographics
77:18
are
77:19
very low for people of color but when
77:20
you walk in the courtroom you would
77:22
think that only black people or
77:23
east african people are the one
77:25
committing the crimes when the numbers
77:26
just don’t show that
77:28
and so i just want us just to highlight
77:30
that that’s a great point on
77:32
keeping track of the data
77:40
that’s right okay um
77:45
well i think we’re going to close up i
77:47
want to thank everyone so much for
77:48
joining us today
77:50
especially to all the speakers and
77:54
thanks for lending your voice to this
77:56
film and
77:58
i want to remind everyone who’s watching
78:00
at home that this film is available
78:02
for free to watch on youtube and
78:04
facebook and you can also
78:06
sign up to host a screening at
78:08
78:10
and you’ll receive a download of the
78:12
film and a discussion guide that you can
78:14
use
78:14
to have conversations about this issue
78:18
and also want to remind everyone that if
78:20
you
78:22
have a screening you can also request a
78:24
free copy of the book
78:26
by alexandre natapov punishment without
78:28
crime
78:29
this is the book again that this film
78:32
this film was inspired
78:33
by this book and
78:38
i guess the main thing going forward is
78:40
the film is done but now the real work
78:42
begins
78:42
so i invite you to join all the
78:45
co-sponsors
78:46
um from these local organizations we are
78:49
criminals
78:50
minnesota freedom fund and the aclu of
78:52
minnesota go to their websites
78:55
learn more educate yourself and get
78:56
involved
78:58
thank you so much thanks to everybody
—
This post was previously published on YouTube.
***
You Might Also Like These From The Good Men Project
 Compliments Men Want to Hear More Often |
 Relationships Aren’t Easy, But They’re Worth It |
 The One Thing Men Want More Than Sex |
 ..A Man’s Kiss Tells You Everything |
Join The Good Men Project as a Premium Member today.
All Premium Members get to view The Good Men Project with NO ADS.
A $50 annual membership gives you an all access pass. You can be a part of every call, group, class and community.
A $25 annual membership gives you access to one class, one Social Interest group and our online communities.
A $12 annual membership gives you access to our Friday calls with the publisher, our online community.
Register New Account
Log in if you wish to renew an existing subscription.
Need more info? A complete list of benefits is here.
The post “Racially Charged” MN Screening and Discussion W/ Mary Moriarty, Nadine Graves, and More! – BNF [Video] appeared first on The Good Men Project.